Oct. 6, 2022

Dirty Dough Reveals How Packaging Got Them Sued & Doubled Their Business

Dirty Dough Reveals How Packaging Got Them Sued & Doubled Their Business

Evelio talks to Dirty Dough founder Bennett Maxwell about how their cookie box got them sued by Crumbl cookies and they turned it into content that more than doubled their franchises from 90 to over 200 in 2 months. 

Plus learn how finding the right coating allowed them to reduce their packaging spend and increase user experience for non-customers! Did you know that Uber Eats make up 25% of most take-out orders and are considered non-customers?

Links:

* Dirty Dough Cookies

* Bennett Maxwell

* Buckwild Media

* EKR Agency

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Transcript

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:17:14
Speaker 1
You want to know how to package cookies and pastries? Well, Bennett Maxwell, he's the founder of Dirty Dough Cookies. These guys are being sued for their cookie boxes. Some things we're talking about are going to be how they pack other cookies, how they're box designed actually reduces cookie damage in transit. When they show up at home, they don't show up all broken and damaged.

00:00:17:14 - 00:00:45:16
Speaker 1
We're also going to talk about how there's innovations in packaging that have allowed them to change their business model, which have allowed them to reduce their cost as decreased. Uber eats delivery time, which is awesome because it makes the drivers actually make more money and then they've eliminated a ton of excess packaging. You're also going to get why they're getting sued by a big cookie company and how they've actually turned this lawsuit, which is a serious lawsuit into some of the greatest marketing campaigns you've probably ever seen in your life.

00:00:46:00 - 00:01:08:00
Speaker 1
I know these are the most amazing campaigns at the moment. Each one of them is better than any Super Bowl ad you've you've seen to date. All right. So let's jump into the show with Bennett Maxwell. We're talking about cookie packaging. Podcast is called Packaging Unboxed Focus on Packaging. And I saw I saw your stuff come online. I think I was introduced to you guys by your commercials.

00:01:08:12 - 00:01:15:23
Speaker 1
All these commercials that you're doing. Before we jump in, I like can just give us a quick one minute rundown of who you are and what you do.

00:01:16:04 - 00:01:38:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. Bennett Maxwell My background is sales entrepreneurship. Right now, my current company's dirty dough. It's a cookie franchise. So you franchised ten months ago and it's grown pretty quick. We have seven open locations with two more opening actually this week and 200 of them have been sold. So we got a lot more to open.

00:01:40:01 - 00:01:45:00
Speaker 1
Like you had like 90 like 90 sold. And then I think once this lawsuit hit, right, all of a.

00:01:45:00 - 00:01:53:10
Speaker 2
Sudden, exactly where we are at 90 when the lawsuit was made public. And that's what we've we've doubled.

00:01:54:10 - 00:01:54:17
Speaker 1
That's.

00:01:55:00 - 00:02:02:13
Speaker 2
Two and a half months. So talk about good marketing criminals, good at marketing for themselves.

00:02:02:13 - 00:02:22:17
Speaker 1
That's good, I think. All right. So like, you're you've got a personal mission statement that I got somewhere. It was like, you know, how do you find joy and fulfillment despite life sturdiness, right. And so so just talking about life sturdiness to simplify things a little bit, right? You franchise, you make cookies, you sell them, you put them in a box and you're getting sued.

00:02:22:17 - 00:02:29:06
Speaker 1
So, I mean, it doesn't get any dirtier. I'm getting sued for making cookies. So why are you getting sued?

00:02:29:08 - 00:02:54:09
Speaker 2
Right. So there's there's several points of lawsuit, but the main points that they have issues with is the fact that we rotate our favor flavors weekly and the fact that we use a rectangular box which are so silly. We hired some researcher guy, you know, reached out LinkedIn's hey, I can help you out with this and with you went for you started alphabetically by the time you got to California.

00:02:54:09 - 00:03:20:18
Speaker 2
So we're at sea. He had 75 companies that do plan rotating menu whether that's weekly, biweekly monthly, whatever. And I'm like, how are, you know, this company's only been around for five years so right meaning crumble and then the rectangular box is the silly part about that is they do have a trade dress on their box and it says it has to be pink crumble, logo crumble, cookies.

00:03:20:23 - 00:03:36:18
Speaker 2
I'm written out and then four cookies printed on the bottom of their packaging. Well, we don't have any of those, right. The only simulator that we have is the shape of the box on their tray dresses says we do not claim the shape of the trade of the box part of the trade dress. It's like, what? Well, what?

00:03:37:00 - 00:03:46:07
Speaker 2
Why is that in the lawsuit? But, man, you could point out to another hundred things that are in the lawsuit that you're like, what? What what do you guys what do you guys think in here? So yeah, very silly.

00:03:46:12 - 00:04:06:11
Speaker 1
Your company is dirty dough, your colors blue versus pink. They've got, like, a little chef with a hat, you know, the bite taken out of his hat. You've got a cookie with a bite taken out of it. It's like stock images for four years with bites taken out of it. You know, you've taken this, like, serious lawsuit. I mean, you know, any time you get sued, it's serious.

00:04:06:11 - 00:04:31:01
Speaker 1
Like it's going to cost you money, right? But you've made some of the most hilarious content from this, like, serious issue. You know, you got people on the street asking about like the box shape. You've got this lawyer character, you've got this like fat cat, business owner, chasing people around, acting like a maniac. You launched a new ad today, which was hilarious.

00:04:32:06 - 00:04:45:23
Speaker 1
You know, like threatening kids, selling cookies like, this is insane. It's like, how on earth, like, where does this idea even come from to take this ridiculous lawsuit and turn it into this like, marketing gold?

00:04:47:08 - 00:05:08:16
Speaker 2
It kind of just fell on her lap. So it wasn't a plan by any means, because if it was planned, we would have started this in May, right? When we actually started getting sued where we didn't nobody knew that we were getting sued until like mid-July because that's when a news article picked up. So I'm here boarding a plane to go to Mexico for a month.

00:05:09:04 - 00:05:27:02
Speaker 2
I wasn't just like a little trip. I'm going for a month and I and I see KSL, a local news channel, pick up the article and I'm like, Oh, crap, you know, now I have to get on top of it. So that that's what it was, is like me responding. And then the lawsuit shows cookie's our cookie with sprinkles next to their cookie with sprinkles.

00:05:27:02 - 00:05:46:02
Speaker 2
And I'm just like, come on, you know? So, like, I was making fun of, I was like, this is a joke. Like, Grandma High, just sprinkle or crumble is going to come out and, you know, and there's hundreds of thousands of people that saw it. And then news channels are picking up that post. And then in May, we started some billboard, Just Dirty Dough coming soon and Utah County.

00:05:46:06 - 00:06:02:13
Speaker 2
Right. Because these were based on well, this is also homeless headquarters. They've never done a billboard ever in four and a half years now, at least that I've seen. They see a few of our Coming Soon video billboards. They must have put 20 billboards on there, you know, and it's like, okay, well, we did billboards down there doing billboards.

00:06:03:04 - 00:06:19:16
Speaker 2
How about we do billboards with The Lost, you know, because we were doing like the digital rotating ones. So you can, like change the design. So and then we threw out some billboards and it was just like, you know, the marketing company came out with maybe 20 options of different things and I chose the top five that I liked.

00:06:19:21 - 00:06:44:00
Speaker 2
And then we threw them out on billboards and it was like our cookies. Our cookies are so good, we're being sued. And it shows like a big cookie with a censored mark, like, as if you're looking at, like, X-rated videos, you know? And just like our cookies don't crumble under corporate competition, you can't hurt our feelings. Or so like, yeah, we actually put the billboards, but because I posted it and I tagged Crumble and I was like, Hey, I like your billboards.

00:06:44:21 - 00:07:02:05
Speaker 2
How do you like ours? You know that one? That that one got like half a million views and then, I don't know, news channels in like eight different states picked it up and took screenshots, you know, and posted that. So it kind of just, you know, little by little, they're like, okay, people are loving this because they agree with how silly this lawsuit is.

00:07:02:13 - 00:07:20:08
Speaker 2
So how about we make a stupid video? I made one and everybody loved it, like, all right, you guys can make another one. And it was just a company that reached out. James Dayton from Buckwild Media. He's like, Hey, I want to do a video for you guys. And I was like, No, let's not do it. We initially turn it down and then I'm like, What the heck?

00:07:20:08 - 00:07:31:19
Speaker 2
Let's try it. Let's, you know, it's it's stupid. And they make those kind of satire videos on like, let's, let's give it a go. And then it came out and I'm like, Oh, you guys are on. Where is it going? Keep going.

00:07:32:23 - 00:07:53:22
Speaker 1
It's awesome. I mean, yeah, it's it's hilarious. And I think at the end of last the end of the last video, it says, you know, Dirty Dough Sucks, which I loved, just, you know, growing up in the nineties, there's like, you know, there's a band called Primus and, you know, Primus had these T-shirts that said Primus sucks. And you'd go to that, you know, you'd go to a primary show.

00:07:53:22 - 00:08:09:07
Speaker 1
People would be walking around the private suck shirts, and then you get like the new nude, the band fan, and they'd be like, Why are you wearing that? Should get out of here. Like, they didn't get it. So I love like this dirty toe sucks. It's almost like you're either in the club or you're not. Are either get the brand or you don't.

00:08:09:18 - 00:08:30:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just making light of a stupid situation and kind of goes like, that's my belief that is really, you know, are are there failures, are there mistakes? Are there opportunities to learn from? And if you're looking at like how how can I take this experience, this situation that happened? What can I do with it?

00:08:30:07 - 00:08:51:13
Speaker 2
You know, can I can I can I bring it into a positive life? Can I be optimistic about it? You know, going back to the mission statement, underneath our mission statement, our core values and one of those is optimism, right? Like we accept problems and we're glad to be able to to face them. Right. Because we're going to learn from them whether or not, you know, we lose money, we lose time, whatever.

00:08:51:20 - 00:09:00:14
Speaker 2
As long as you're learning from these experiences, then I think that's the way to live life, just like, you know, not business specifically, but just life in general.

00:09:00:21 - 00:09:23:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, no, that's a great I mean, it's a great outlook and it just shows what you guys are doing. You've said a bunch. You know, you're an entrepreneur. You don't you don't necessarily sell cookies. You sell franchises. Right. Which I think is a different approach to most entrepreneurs where they're like in love with their product. Not that you're not, but, you know, a lot of times they're like.

00:09:23:21 - 00:09:46:01
Speaker 2
You could say that I've never made I've never made a batch of cookies, never made dirty dough cookies. I'm very convinced that it's not about the product you have to have a good product, don't get me wrong, but just tell me one food franchise brand that has the best product in there, whether it's pizza, whether it's hamburgers, whether it's Mexican, Chinese, who's got the best product?

00:09:46:08 - 00:10:01:09
Speaker 2
None of the top companies, but they have the consistency and they have the model and the process. And that's where I think this whole thing about like crumbles, oh, you're still our recipes. That's like, come on, go take a cookie. We could find two different cookies. But even if we did, like, I want to like, I'll send you my recipes.

00:10:01:09 - 00:10:21:09
Speaker 2
I cook the recipes don't make the business. It's everything. The recipes are the easy part. You you go find copycat recipes online for any company out there. So no, definitely not super passionate, the cookies or anything like that or the product itself. It's I need a good product because my customer is my franchisee and they need a good product, right?

00:10:21:09 - 00:10:27:10
Speaker 2
But that's why we're improving the product. Not because I love it. I do love cookies, but.

00:10:30:15 - 00:10:48:06
Speaker 1
I want to introduce you to ADP Direct AECOM. We recently won a Silver Pen awards for collaborating on the future of sustainable packaging. If you want to work directly with the packaging manufacturer and you're tired of distributors and middlemen, check them out. Visit IP direct ecom to learn more. Right back to the commercials. Yeah, these crazy commercials, they talk about your packaging, you talk about your product.

00:10:48:15 - 00:10:57:15
Speaker 1
So did you have to run like the videos of that team put together for you? Did you have to run that by your lawyers before we put it out now? And what was it like? What was their response?

00:10:57:23 - 00:11:14:20
Speaker 2
A few videos like It makes me nervous or not, but but why? And I'm like questioning them like why? You know why or no, you know. And it's like, well, are we saying anything that's not factually true or no? Okay. So legally, is there any issues here? No. Okay, cool. Or throwing them?

00:11:14:20 - 00:11:15:09
Speaker 1
That's nice.

00:11:15:18 - 00:11:33:20
Speaker 2
You know, but they've been really good. Too good to work with. And they both of the attorneys that we're working with, they said they never allowed their clients to do this before, like, you know, go to social media with it. And when ask when I was asked, you know, why, what's going through their minds? Why are they letting us do that?

00:11:33:20 - 00:11:47:19
Speaker 2
I was on the phone with them when I was like reading this emails like, hey, how would I respond? And they go, Well, tell him that we've never allowed this. We don't plan on allowing this in the future. But this lawsuit and the word he used was laughable. So laughable that we felt like you can't screw it up.

00:11:48:23 - 00:11:50:06
Speaker 2
All right. I'll go with that.

00:11:51:05 - 00:11:55:08
Speaker 1
If you guys received like a C and D on these like a cease and desist on these ads.

00:11:55:13 - 00:12:09:12
Speaker 2
No, no. I mean, they don't criminal doesn't do a cease and desist. They don't even send a cease and desist before they filed a federal lawsuit. They just go straight to the federal law civil. There's a there's a company with one store and they get a federal lawsuit. I'm not going to send them a letter. I'm not going to ask them to change.

00:12:09:15 - 00:12:29:06
Speaker 2
Who's got time for that? Right. Let's just have a a battle and who's got deeper pockets now. Completely disingenuous that they didn't. I know the owners have met them face to face. They have my cell phone number and they don't send a cease and desist like really are you after a resolution or are you just trying to stifle competition?

00:12:29:20 - 00:12:41:16
Speaker 2
Because if you're after a resolution, hands down, there's no reason why you shouldn't and shouldn't have sent a cease and desist of, hey, possible brand confusion. Can you guys make these changes and we start talking? No, they don't want that.

00:12:42:00 - 00:12:51:12
Speaker 1
That's not spam. So in terms of the packaging, you mentioned that the the lawsuit claims the rectangular box. Is there any possible confusion there at all?

00:12:51:12 - 00:13:15:16
Speaker 2
Like what? We still cookie's in the box. So here's the here's the caveat there. We started with the rectangular box and crumble started with or take over box. Well, 25% of our business is ubereats drivers, meaning it's delivery. And if you have big cookies, giant, they have toppings, drizzles, whatever and they're warm. You don't want them to smash into each other, right?

00:13:15:19 - 00:13:32:23
Speaker 2
So if you have a square box, the opportunity for all four cookies to smash into each other is very high. Well, if you have a rectangular box or separating those. So it's a it's a matter of functionality, it just delivers better. Now, can we go to the rectangular box and not, you know, suffer anything with the business? Sure, we can.

00:13:33:18 - 00:13:54:08
Speaker 2
But and then there's another cookie company called Chip. Now, at least they don't file lawsuits, but they are sending people cease and desist letters for using a square box. So whether you want to use a square or a rectangle, these two companies are arrogant enough to think that they own the shape of a box. And I'm just like, God, get out of here, guys.

00:13:54:08 - 00:13:58:18
Speaker 2
No, that's that's silly. I'm not you know, I'm not going to entertain that at all.

00:13:58:21 - 00:14:03:04
Speaker 1
You basically freeze these cookies, right? Like you send a hockey puck.

00:14:03:05 - 00:14:24:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, we do a centralized production. Yeah. Yep. And then they just pop them in the oven. So we're operating. I mean, it's just again, go find two companies as far as back and processes go that are more different than the dirty donut crumble, you can't find it. We do a centralized production model with the frozen cookie packs and they make it on site with teenagers, write 65 cookies at a time.

00:14:24:20 - 00:14:36:13
Speaker 2
We do 1500 cookies per batch. They way by hand, we machine portion. That's why we do fillings, stuffed cookies, two layer cookies, three layer cookies. Crumble doesn't do any of that because you can't do it by hand. You have to have these specialized machines.

00:14:37:07 - 00:14:48:07
Speaker 1
That's cool. And then with your franchises do they will they have to order their own packaging from an approved vendor or does is it centralized?

00:14:48:10 - 00:15:11:18
Speaker 2
We do that, yeah. We centralize that as well. So like packaging is a huge expense. Like right now paper gets through the roof and because we can order 100,000 or 300,000 quantities, we get it cheaper than than the competition. And then we deliver as we're delivering the dough. But we just ordered packaging and we just tested this last week.

00:15:11:22 - 00:15:38:18
Speaker 2
It's 40% of what we're paying now, so 60% off. And it ships from China. It's a thicker card board and it has the anti-Christ coating. So we're really excited about that. We just tested that. And yeah, it works a lot better than our packaging and it's a little only 40% of the cost. So we were already cheaper than the competition and we just cut that down a lot because we use the centralized production model and because this is a packaging podcast.

00:15:39:01 - 00:15:59:07
Speaker 2
Let me jump into it a little bit more of the packaging itself. So our issue right now, I mean, already said 25% of our orders aren't cut. I mean, 25% of the people that come through the door aren't our customers, right? They're DoorDash and Ubereats delivery driver. So if you are the driver, you get paid per order, not per hour.

00:15:59:07 - 00:16:19:02
Speaker 2
So you want to make it as quick as possible. Well, an order comes in for cookies, whether it's crumble or dirty dough or whatever. We instruct our employees to say, tell them it's ready, even though we don't have it in the packaging yet. Because if I put it in the packaging right now, it's going to take you ten, 20, 30 minutes to get there and then bomb to get you know, it's going to be all greasy and ugly.

00:16:19:09 - 00:16:33:12
Speaker 2
So we say tell them it's ready when they get there. We're going to. So you show up, you're going have to wait in line. If there's a line, tell me your name. I'm going to go in the back. Yeah, the cookies already baked, but I start to get on my set to put them in the packaging and then have to decorate them.

00:16:33:12 - 00:16:51:21
Speaker 2
You know, takes 5 minutes. Let's 5 minutes. You don't get paid for 5 minutes. The customer has to wait and frankly, it would have been better for me to prep the cookies before you got there. Right. Because I can choose when I want to do that. I don't have to wait till other customers. So we've been wanting to do these warming lockers, kind of like Little Caesars.

00:16:52:03 - 00:16:54:08
Speaker 2
Have you ever been in the Little Caesars and seen the pizza portals?

00:16:54:08 - 00:16:57:10
Speaker 1
That is not is like sixth grade, you know?

00:16:57:10 - 00:17:20:08
Speaker 2
Okay. So you walk in as an ubereats driver, you get a three digit code on your phone, you walk in and there's this warming locker there you go. You see your your name. You type in 164. And then it says, you know, Benny is in locker number two. And then the door opens, boom, I grab my cookies or my pizza and I'm gone.

00:17:20:18 - 00:17:37:15
Speaker 2
So what we're doing that now in our stores because we just got the packaging to allow us to do that, because now we can as soon as that order comes in, I can place my cookies into the packaging in my down time. I got 30 minutes, 20, 30 minutes until you arrive. I'm going to have some downtime. Now I can prep the cookies now.

00:17:37:15 - 00:17:52:05
Speaker 2
When you walk in, you go straight to the locker. You don't need to talk to anybody because you don't want to, right? You're not a customer. You don't need that human interaction. You just want to get paid. You go straight to the locker, type in one six for that locker pops open, you grab the cookies, get back in your car, go deliver it.

00:17:52:12 - 00:18:01:12
Speaker 2
So it speeds up the process a lot while decreasing our labor costs and, you know, a lot of that interaction. And that came down to finding the right package.

00:18:01:13 - 00:18:06:04
Speaker 1
What's what what's different about this particular packaging that allows you to do that system?

00:18:07:13 - 00:18:24:14
Speaker 2
It it has some coding on it. I don't I don't know what it is. It's a grease coding. So what we use right now, I guess it doesn't have the coding. We also put like a little wax liner in there and even then it bleeds through this. We don't even have to put the liner, so it actually decreases costs even further.

00:18:24:19 - 00:18:35:18
Speaker 2
Not that those liners cost that much, but they're a pent up in year two, right? That's up. So yeah, we don't need to use liners anymore. And B, whatever this coating is, it really works.

00:18:36:10 - 00:18:39:20
Speaker 1
What are you guys using your your packaging for beyond just carrying your cookies.

00:18:40:02 - 00:18:56:20
Speaker 2
So what we're doing on our we just ordered a ton of new boxes. So now they're getting shipped out to the stores. But like some of the messaging, because we have a big mental health push with dirty dough and a nonprofit, we do each of the four packages. So single for six and dozen, they have a different message.

00:18:57:08 - 00:19:15:15
Speaker 2
One is perfectly imperfect, one is probably unique inside and out. One is life's messy and that's okay. Little things like that. So we do use our packaging to spread that message. We also have on this new order that we just did, we have QR codes printed on all the packaging and it looks like a stickers kind of offset a little bit.

00:19:16:00 - 00:19:34:03
Speaker 2
And it's like scan me for I mean, I don't know, it says, but you scan it, you don't need to download an app, you scan it and it just pops up in a web browser. You say, allow camera, allow blah, blah, blah, and then you point your camera at the box of cookies and you tap the screen and then cookies pop out and it comes to life.

00:19:34:03 - 00:19:54:03
Speaker 2
It's an augmented reality experience. So we've done that on top of our packaging. And then you can send happy birthday messages that fireworks are popping up, right? Or 4th of July or happy anniversary or Valentine's or just, you know, whatever you want. But we're doing this custom augmented reality experience and we use our packaging to do that. We use our packaging to spread.

00:19:54:03 - 00:20:03:13
Speaker 2
The message jumped into, you know, we use a rectangular packaging for our four box to prevent, you know, the cookies from shuffling around cross-contamination.

00:20:03:13 - 00:20:08:23
Speaker 1
Or if you the guy selling those cookie boxes, like how would you sell these cookie boxes to yourself?

00:20:09:13 - 00:20:30:21
Speaker 2
I don't know much about acting, but this is this is how I treat anything with sales. I think it's a little office. I think typically we make a product and then we go try to sell that product. Well, I'm going to go to the market and see what what you need and then I'm going to sell you what you need, you know, so it's more of a like what is the most I'm going to reference what I'm doing, franchises, right?

00:20:30:21 - 00:20:48:06
Speaker 2
I don't know how to sell a franchise. What do you want, a franchise? Well, I start talking to people. It's labor. People want low labor. Okay, well, what else do you want? Well, I want I want it to be lower risk. Well, how do you raise the risk? Well, let's do smaller square footage. Right, because that's your biggest I mean, you're signing a ten year lease.

00:20:48:20 - 00:21:06:07
Speaker 2
So do you want to pay 8000 dollars a month or six grand a month to sign on that? Right. Okay. Well, how do we then solve those issues? Well, I could reduce your labor if I can make the cookies in bulk before I ship them to you. I can reduce your labor if you don't have to weigh anything by hand anymore.

00:21:06:07 - 00:21:25:06
Speaker 2
And that's all proportional machines. I can reduce your square footage by not having you have your own mixers in the store, by not having you store your own raw ingredients. So that's kind of how I went about it, is what do you want? What is the what is the perfect model? Let me go create that because I know if I can create that you already told me you want to buy it, right?

00:21:25:09 - 00:21:37:22
Speaker 2
So like we had tons of franchises pre-sold before we even bother documents because I was already getting their feedback of like, well, this is what we're going to do, and I know that's a terrible idea. Well, this is what we're going to. Oh, I like that. Okay, I'm gonna to push that one hard. I'm going to do this.

00:21:38:19 - 00:21:56:08
Speaker 2
It's a decent idea. Does it wake me up in the morning? Excited? Okay, maybe I'll put that on the shelf and see if I want to visit it later. But that's how I've sold anything that I've done, whether it's, you know, solar or pest control or cut or Nice or Vivint security or cookie franchises. That's how I've always tried to look.

00:21:56:09 - 00:21:56:13
Speaker 2
Oh.

00:21:56:23 - 00:22:25:10
Speaker 1
So that if I was trying to sell you packaging and I'm a, I'm a packaging designer, so I don't I'm not I don't consider myself a salesperson, but I still do sales, right? I'm still selling the creative. I'm still selling you on the idea. So coming into your team, if I'm a packaging sales person, it would be seeing that you guys have the the tissue underneath, you know, that that wax paper underneath your cookies saying that you don't have this locker, seeing the inefficiencies in those little processes that maybe packaging can solve.

00:22:25:10 - 00:22:40:22
Speaker 1
And I'm not selling you in your box. I'm just telling you this efficient system that can help you sell more cookies, speed up the process, reduce all these, you know, like really focus on your pain points versus I got a shiny new box because anybody can make a box.

00:22:41:17 - 00:23:01:08
Speaker 2
And yeah, and then you're competing on price if that's all you're doing. Right. But it's like not all my packaging is going to have a QR code on it, right? And I'm going to maybe partner with a company that does this so we can offer that to you and a more unique experience and then you can charge your customers another dollar if they want to send a love message.

00:23:01:08 - 00:23:16:11
Speaker 2
And we just put a sticker on top, you know, with the different QR codes that we had just diving in and like what are the needs? And a lot of times you don't know the needs, they don't know the needs, the customer doesn't. So you kind of have to just analyze it. Well, how much does that little liner cost?

00:23:16:17 - 00:23:21:12
Speaker 2
How can I get rid of that liner for you and say, and save you over there so I don't have to cut my pricing?

00:23:21:17 - 00:23:22:19
Speaker 1
You know? No, it's about.

00:23:23:02 - 00:23:38:04
Speaker 2
Because obviously we don't want we don't want to cut pricing. We want to add more value rather than. Yeah, because it's pricing is you just have to add more value than what the pricing is. So you can decrease your pricing and keep your value the same or keep your pricing the same and increase your value.

00:23:38:04 - 00:23:57:00
Speaker 1
That's awesome. That's I mean, that's, that's what we want to do in packaging is always focus on on the value that we're delivering. So I appreciate it, man. I know you're super busy. I kind of like wrap this thing up here if I want to, like, oh, I'm in Arizona, so good. Tempe, if you're not in Arizona and you want to get cookies, like how can you get cookies today?

00:23:57:03 - 00:23:59:14
Speaker 1
Or do you have to wait?

00:23:59:14 - 00:24:20:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, wait. So we actually do nationwide shipping, but we just turn it off because of packaging. We've been shipping them and in a six or a dozen, but basically like a like a donut box, right? So large surface area and the top allows them to get smashed. So we need, we need to make it a little bit more rectangular.

00:24:20:11 - 00:24:21:05
Speaker 2
I'll probably get sued.

00:24:21:21 - 00:24:28:05
Speaker 1
Why not? That's why. Why not? Why not sell the pucks and I bake it at home?

00:24:28:05 - 00:24:44:08
Speaker 2
We are looking at doing that as well, doing it doing like a take and bake product. Either way. Right now though, it just we have too much surface area. So when you stack a ton of them on there, the middle obviously gives and it swishes those cookies a little bit. So we're redoing our packaging right now. We have stores up in Utah.

00:24:44:19 - 00:25:00:02
Speaker 2
We just have the Tempe one in Arizona. I think Scottsdale is actually opening in two days. Lady Saratoga Springs and Utah is opening in two days as well. We have we have a lot of stores, I mean, several per month from here until. Yeah, forever until we hit two.

00:25:00:02 - 00:25:07:09
Speaker 1
That's awesome. Who are you working with on your on your packaging your to solve your ecommerce crushing issue? You know.

00:25:08:03 - 00:25:26:12
Speaker 2
I don't know. I don't know. I, I talked with our CEO about it on her weekly calls and then she signs it out to somebody. So I don't I know that's on the lower priority list, but I, I want it solved because we still are missing out on a decent amount of orders because we decided to turn off.

00:25:26:21 - 00:25:33:05
Speaker 2
I'm like, if we're not going to deliver an amazing product, let's just not deliver it at all until we can troubleshoot that.

00:25:33:17 - 00:25:41:16
Speaker 1
That's a show. Thanks so much for joining me. Make sure to subscribe to the show on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts and anywhere else you get the podcast. Can't wait to share the next one.